Pack Recruiting

[cvholt87]

I'm sure many of you have read, or at least noticed, the dramatic improvement in NC State's recruiting. The turn around the staff has done in this regard is nothing short of amazing. I honestly thought it would take at least a season for the recruiting pick up as much as it has but they really have hit the ground running. This of course comes in spite of the hole TOB left us in. I won't get into it too much, but we lost out to a good amount of recruits for "Pack14" based solely on the way TOB recruited them.

To give you guys a couple of examples of the drastic improvements in recruiting, look no further than Derrell Scott, Michael Bowman, and Kentavious Street. Obviously Street is the most widely known of the three as he let it be known that State is and has been his leader since the staff got him on campus. More surprisingly though would be the improvements in the recruitment of the two Havelock standouts. Scott is one of the top running backs in the country and wasn't even considering staying in state. However, the new staff we have now become a "major contender" and are now listed in his top 4 along with Ohio State, South Carolina, and FSU. That's some big time company, boys. To add, he also has offers from Oregon, Tennessee, Clemson, Arkansas, Notre Dame and others.

With the staff having filled out most of the 2014 class in an early fashion, it's enabled them to get ahead of the game on the next class. Enter Michael Bowman. Bowman is one of the top receiver prospects in the state for the 2015 class already having received offers from South Carolina, UNC, Penn State, and NCSU. As of earlier this week, the Pack became the leader for Bowman in his recruitment. Obviously there is a lot of time between now and the time he is planning on committing, but it's always a positive to see us listed out front like that. And keep in mind, this kid is only a rising junior who played behind Pharroh Cooper (4 star, USC) and also shared the field with Scott. 

Derrell Scott Profile

A Fourth Contender for Scott


Michael Bowman Profile

[Ken D]

I'm not sure I would call the improvement if the Pack's football recruiting "dramatic". For the 2013 season, somebody had State ranked #62 in the nation. I think it may have been 247sports.com (affiliated with CBS) or ESPN. While that same service currently has State ranked as high as #26, that's largely due to the fact that State has already nearly wrapped up its recruiting for 2014, while many traditional powers still have more than half their scholly's available while they fight it out for the remaining 4-star recruits.

With only a couple more scholarships available, State's total recruiting score is only a little better than last year's, so their ranking will gradually fall as other players announce their commitments. State's 2014 class should end up somewhere between 45 and 55. That's not bad, but it's not dramatic.

What could make it better, though, is if the 3 star players they are recruiting are more valuable in a spread, hurry up, offense than they would have been under TOB's pro style offense. Doeren's schemes are a talent equalizer where TOB's weren't. We won't be able to judge that for at least a couple of years, so we just have to wait for results on the field.

[cvholt87]

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you, Ken.

At first glance, sure, it looks like there hasn't been that much improvement. As you pointed out, the average ranking for State was around 50 for 2013 and the 2014 ranking is sure to go down as signing day draws closer. However, these rankings didn't really factor into my opinion. From my point of view, passing judgement on Doeren for the 2013 ranking is a complete joke. He was in a transition period where he had to fill out his staff, evaluate the talent he had and how it fit his schemes, do the same for the incoming recruits, and then try and find recruits to fill in the gaps. Not to mention, many of these guys were being recruited by a new staff and, or a new school so there was A LOT of ground to make up.

Regardless, I found remarkable improvement based on the reactions and receptions of the coaches. You would be floored at the amount of players/coaches who harbored angst against NC State based on how TOB treated them. I'd wager over 25% of high school coaches in NC hadn't heard from NC State since the Amato era. Not a letter, a stop by, a hello...nothing. That's PATHETIC. The amount of work the staff has had to put into rebuilding these "in roads" cannot be overlooked. Not only that, but TOB's lackadaisical approach to recruiting (and coaching in general) was extremely underwhelming. If certain big name programs were about to offer a kid, TOB would just simply stop recruiting them. Heck, you should have seen how hard the new staff had to work just to get Braxton Berrios on campus due solely to O'Brien's staff. I don't want to keep ragging on TOB, but I'd say he was 2 coaches away (Reed, Willis) from having State ranked in the 80's.

Contrast that with the new staff and it's a complete 180 degree turn. There's energy and passion that wasn't there before. They have the ability to connect with kids and aren't afraid to get after it with the best of them. The perception of the program in the eyes of recruits has changed an unimaginable amount in just the short time they've been on the job. Pay attention to some of the interviews of coaches and players and you'll see what I mean. I think you'll hear constant praise on how the staff has repositioned themselves with recruits. And that's why I brought up the recruits in my original post. These guys weren't even considering coming to State and now all of the sudden we're turning into major players. 

I will agree with you though that we won't be able to get the full picture of things for a few years down the road (the 2015 class). But as of now, this staff is head and shoulders above the old in recruiting (IMO).  

[cvholt87]

Also, check out some of the recruiting analysts and what they're saying. Here's a quote from tonight...

"Keep an eye on this situation. After talking to people over the past few days, I can tell you N.C. State has A LOT of momentum."

And according to those more in the know than I, this kid was USC bound but Doeren and Des really turned things around. Obviously we have a ways to go to be recruiting at the level we want to be, but this staff is taking HUGE steps in the right direction.

[Ken D]

Jul 11, 2013 18:51:54 GMT -5 cvholt87 said:

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you, Ken.

At first glance, sure, it looks like there hasn't been that much improvement. As you pointed out, the average ranking for State was around 50 for 2013 and the 2014 ranking is sure to go down as signing day draws closer. However, these rankings didn't really factor into my opinion. From my point of view, passing judgement on Doeren for the 2013 ranking is a complete joke. He was in a transition period where he had to fill out his staff, evaluate the talent he had and how it fit his schemes, do the same for the incoming recruits, and then try and find recruits to fill in the gaps. Not to mention, many of these guys were being recruited by a new staff and, or a new school so there was A LOT of ground to make up.

Regardless, I found remarkable improvement based on the reactions and receptions of the coaches. You would be floored at the amount of players/coaches who harbored angst against NC State based on how TOB treated them. I'd wager over 25% of high school coaches in NC hadn't heard from NC State since the Amato era. Not a letter, a stop by, a hello...nothing. That's PATHETIC. The amount of work the staff has had to put into rebuilding these "in roads" cannot be overlooked. Not only that, but TOB's lackadaisical approach to recruiting (and coaching in general) was extremely underwhelming. If certain big name programs were about to offer a kid, TOB would just simply stop recruiting them. Heck, you should have seen how hard the new staff had to work just to get Braxton Berrios on campus due solely to O'Brien's staff. I don't want to keep ragging on TOB, but I'd say he was 2 coaches away (Reed, Willis) from having State ranked in the 80's.

Contrast that with the new staff and it's a complete 180 degree turn. There's energy and passion that wasn't there before. They have the ability to connect with kids and aren't afraid to get after it with the best of them. The perception of the program in the eyes of recruits has changed an unimaginable amount in just the short time they've been on the job. Pay attention to some of the interviews of coaches and players and you'll see what I mean. I think you'll hear constant praise on how the staff has repositioned themselves with recruits. And that's why I brought up the recruits in my original post. These guys weren't even considering coming to State and now all of the sudden we're turning into major players. 

I will agree with you though that we won't be able to get the full picture of things for a few years down the road (the 2015 class). But as of now, this staff is head and shoulders above the old in recruiting (IMO).  

I wasn't passing judgment (at least not in a negative way) on State's 2013 recruiting. But I think your points support my assertion that there's little quantitative evidence of dramatic improvement. If this year's class is only marginally better than the 2013 class, which was cobbled together under less than ideal circumstances by a new staff, how encouraging should that be?

But I was also making another point, that has implications beyond Raleigh. Almost all of the new coaching hires in the FBS this year were guys who have embraced the spread offense. That rewards a different skill set than the pro style offenses of schools like Alabama, USC et al. It may well be that we have to evaluate talent (i.e. star ratings) differently to reflect that change in style. I don't think we can know yet whether the three star kids being recruited by coaches like Doeren (and Fedora) will have four-star success in a spread offense.

As to TOB's relationships with local coaches, that could be the supreme irony here, inasmuch as one of the major reasons he gave for leaving a successful program at BC was that he thought he could recruit more successfully at State. He talked a good game about recruiting in-state. If your sources are correct, the staff didn't back up those words with their actions. That's both surprising and disappointing to me. I expected better out of TOB.

[cvholt87]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Ken. I understand where you're coming from but for me the rankings don't mean much given the staff hasn't even coached a down yet. Heck the fact that they were able to fill up 2014 so quickly and improve on last years class without having even stepped on the field is pretty damn encouraging in itself. If anything, the most encouraging part of all this would be the number of top end talent we have been able to get in with in such a short period of time. We were RARELY considered by 4 star athletes or those with big offers, but to be involved with this much talent without having played a down is pretty remarkable...

5* Kentavious Street - leader
4* Derrell Scott - top 2 (I think we lead)
4* Chris Register - top 2
4* Trace McSorely - top 3 (quit recruiting him, Jalen McClendon)
4* Braxton Berrios - top 4
4* Josh Cabrera - top 3 (stopped recruiting WR's after our last commitment)
4* Lorenzo Featherson - currently top 3
4* Treveon Thompson - currently top 3
4* Sharieff Rhaheed - currently top 3 (LSU decommit)
4* Justin Jones - committed over Ole Miss
4* Germaine Pratt - committed over ND, Tennessee
4* Jalen McClendon - committed over Tennessee
3* John Battle - top 2 (LSU)
3* Terrone Prescod - committed over Auburn
3* Jefferie Gibson - committed over Clemson
3* Cole Cook - committed over FSU

Either way, it's always been said that the best measure of a coaches recruiting abilities is their third class so we'll have to wait to see what difference he really made. 

As to your other point, I agree that the change from pro to spread is shaking up how players are rated. It'll be interesting to see how everything unfolds. 

[Ken D]

To that last point, Johnny Football was ranked the 39th best QB in the class of 2011. He got 3 stars from ESPN. Jacoby Brissett was ranked #25 in that same class.

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Go Pack

[cvholt87]

Couple of updates from the past few weeks...

3* Jefferie Gibson switched his commitment from State to Clemson after taking in the Clemson Georgia game. An important part of his recruitment was getting in good with his sister, who seems to have a good head on her shoulders, and Clemson did a great job of practically recruiting her to play for Clemson. She was getting almost as much mail from Clemson as Jefferie was. When he decided to make the switch I found it interesting that his sister made him drive to Raleigh to tell the coaches in person.

3* Shawn Boone took in the Richmond game last week and loved it. Despite his 3 star rating Boone boasts offers from FSU, Ohio State, Tennessee, Arkansas, among others. His visit to State may have put NC State back out in front but there's obviously a long ways to go.

4* Johnnie Dixon is a teammate of Boone's and took the trip with him to State for the Richmond game. Dixon has offers from virtually everyone (Alabama included) but his NC State visit was "amazing" and he "didn't want to leave." An important piece to this puzzle is Jacoby Brissett who played high school football with both Boone and Dixon.

@jeffgreer: There's growing sentiment that NC State could be dark horse for Dixon. Loved his visit, HUGE that Brissett is there

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Keep the good news coming, cv! Can't get 'em all but we do need to be getting our share.

[cvholt87]

Small Derrell Scott update

@gcchrisclark: According to a source close to his recruitment four-star RB Derrell Scott's decision date has been pushed back - TBD now.

The longer this drags out, the better it is for State. However, he is taking a trip to Tennessee in the near future. The only thing that scares me about this is that TN is notorious for throwing major $$ at recruits (see the Marquez North, Arian Foster, etc).

Also, on the Johnnie Dixon front...

Jeff Greer ?@jeffgreer - Asked good Dwyer source if #Canes are obvious for Johnnie Dixon: "I don't know. #Bama #NCState and #OhioState are for real."

Dwyer is his high school, btw. And for State to be mentioned along side of Ohio State and Alabama really says something about their recruiting, IMHO.

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Likin' it!

[cvholt87]

Some tidbits from Kentavious Street (5* out of Greenville). He lists NC State as his #1 school and will decide at the end of January. He'll be visiting this weekend along with some other recruits for the Central Michigan game.

link

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Keep ring the good news bell, cv. Luv it!

Go Pack

[cvholt87]

There was a surprise visit this weekend from Mississippi State commit Tyler Jones. The big o-lineman apparently had a fantastic visit and the coaches REALLY impressed him. He said he'll look to make his final decision in the next week or so but I wouldn't be shocked if he made it earlier

He has offers from Ohio State, Miss St, South Carolina, and UNC, among others.

Tyler Jones Profile

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Can never be too deep at O-line, either.

Thanks, cv!

[cvholt87]

Boom, Tyler Jones switches from Mississippi State to NCSU.

Pack Pride ?@packpride: OL Tyler Jones has informed Pack Pride that he has switched his commitment from Mississippi State to NC State.

[Tizu]

Wow awesome pickup, State! G'job!

[cvholt87]

@hysteria1063: #Dwyer 4-star WR Johnnie Dixon lists #Alabama, #Canes, #OhioState, #NCState, #Vols as his Top 5. He'll commit 11/30. He's [visiting] #Tennessee 11/22.

No idea where he's leaning but it'll be interesting to see how Miami's recent scholarship reduction comes into play here.

[cvholt87]

Quick update - State is still on top for 5 star DE Kentavious Street and there is a strong belief that State earned a spot in Johnnie Dixon's top 2. Still no idea where he ends up but with a WR decommitment from OSU this weekend, I'd expect a full court press by Ohio State.

Oh another note, four star QB Jalan McClendon is still being heavily recruited by Tennessee despite his unwavering commitment to NC State. They pushed hard and expected to get an official from Jalan this weekend but he didn't attend. Most believe the constant decommitment rumors have been coming from the UT camp and that appears to have backfired a little as McClendon has grown quite annoyed. He's one commit State simply can't afford to lose this late in the game but I doubt that happens given the PT situation at State and the fact that his parents have stressed the importance of him playing close to home.