|
Post by Tizu on Oct 17, 2013 6:16:06 GMT -5
Unforeseen injuries? Academically ineligible?
Interesting...
|
|
|
Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Oct 17, 2013 12:31:12 GMT -5
Due to the Teflonic nature of UNC-CH, I'll hold off getting my popcorn ready - for now.
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Oct 21, 2013 18:27:26 GMT -5
FWIW neither PJ nor Leslie McDonald participated in UNC's secret scrimmage yesterday. Can't say if this has anything to do with the possible NCAA issues but I thought I'd pass it along.
|
|
|
Post by Tizu on Oct 22, 2013 6:10:06 GMT -5
Good stuff, CV. Thanks for the update.
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Oct 22, 2013 11:24:26 GMT -5
Update - Looks like the NCAA is indeed involved with both PJ Hairston and Leslie McDonald. We'll just have to wait and see what, if anything, comes of it...
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Oct 23, 2013 13:14:51 GMT -5
Confirmation of what I posted a few days ago...
@goodmanespn - Keep hearing that Vandy took it to UNC in "secret scrimmage", but no Hairston, McDonald or Tokoto. McAdoo looked lackluster -- per source.
Heard that Tokoto will sit one game for participating in an unsanctioned Pro-Am event over the summer.
And FWIW, Vandy was 16-17 last year and lost 2 starters along with a reserve.
|
|
|
Post by Tizu on Oct 23, 2013 14:01:08 GMT -5
Confirmation of what I posted a few days ago... @goodmanespn - Keep hearing that Vandy took it to UNC in "secret scrimmage", but no Hairston, McDonald or Tokoto. McAdoo looked lackluster -- per source. Heard that Tokoto will sit one game for participating in an unsanctioned Pro-Am event over the summer. And FWIW, Vandy was 16-17 last year and lost 2 starters along with a reserve. Thanks for the excellent info, CV!
|
|
|
Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Oct 23, 2013 20:59:28 GMT -5
I'm starting it now: cvholt87 for Mayor of Chatville
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Nov 6, 2013 22:49:11 GMT -5
Well, the past few days have been quite interesting.
PJ was called out of practice yesterday and this just so happened to coincide with the NCAA calling back, though a UNC spokesman said his absence was due to a class conflict. Not sure what kind of unforeseen class conflict would cause PJ to suddenly stop practicing (this would be a first) but I'll let you make of that what you will.
What I've heard since then is that the NCAA has sent down a serious suspension (most likely the season) and that Roy/Bubba are currently in the appeals process (as of last night). Obviously things are fluid with Roy and UNC immediately appealing so the final ruling is up in the air but I'd expect to hear something soon. Another thing to keep in mind is UNC's APR problem. The program is very close to not being able to play in the post season after the next round of APR scores come out. If PJ is ruled ineligible, UNC fans had better pray he doesn't pack up and leave or they could be in for another unpleasant surprise.
This (the APR issue) also has to do with why Will Graves all of the sudden decided put his professional career on hold to come back and finish his UNC degree. Keep in mind that in 2010 UNC lost Graves, Drew, the Wear twins, and Davis, a combination that could prove to be fatal to their APR depending on how the next semester shakes out.
|
|
|
Post by Tizu on Nov 7, 2013 7:28:11 GMT -5
Good information as always CV! I've been keeping a close eye on this one, it's going to be interesting to see what, if anything (though at this point it does appear something will happen) happens to PJ and others. Keep us posted if you hear anything else.
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Nov 7, 2013 14:14:01 GMT -5
@clbrownespn: Hairston & McDonald officially out for UNC opener against Oakland
|
|
|
Post by Ken D on Nov 7, 2013 15:06:23 GMT -5
Well, the past few days have been quite interesting. PJ was called out of practice yesterday and this just so happened to coincide with the NCAA calling back, though a UNC spokesman said his absence was due to a class conflict. Not sure what kind of unforeseen class conflict would cause PJ to suddenly stop practicing (this would be a first) but I'll let you make of that what you will. What I've heard since then is that the NCAA has sent down a serious suspension (most likely the season) and that Roy/Bubba are currently in the appeals process (as of last night). Obviously things are fluid with Roy and UNC immediately appealing so the final ruling is up in the air but I'd expect to hear something soon. Another thing to keep in mind is UNC's APR problem. The program is very close to not being able to play in the post season after the next round of APR scores come out. If PJ is ruled ineligible, UNC fans had better pray he doesn't pack up and leave or they could be in for another unpleasant surprise. This (the APR issue) also has to do with why Will Graves all of the sudden decided put his professional career on hold to come back and finish his UNC degree. Keep in mind that in 2010 UNC lost Graves, Drew, the Wear twins, and Davis, a combination that could prove to be fatal to their APR depending on how the next semester shakes out. I've always been puzzled by the APR issue. If Drew and the Wear twins were to graduate from UCLA, would that still be held against UNC? And how does a school like Kentucky, which routinely loses players early to the NBA, avoid APR issues with the NCAA?
|
|
|
Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Nov 7, 2013 20:55:53 GMT -5
Nothing to see here.
Everybody does it.
It happens everywhere.
Red Rage.
Flagship.
Did I miss any?
That's the thing - I always heard growing up around here that this stuff DIDN"T happen in Chapel Hill.
Hmmm ..... interesting.
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Nov 8, 2013 15:41:13 GMT -5
PJ's done. News could possibly break today.
ETA - Ken, I have no earthly idea how APR works. I was actually hoping you would chime in and be able to explain it haha. I do know that it depends if the players are making adequate progress towards a degree and if they leave, did they leave in good academic standing. That's about all I got on that though.
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Nov 12, 2013 15:17:32 GMT -5
@markseidelwfnz: Looking more & more like PJ Hairston won't return to UNC. Hasn’t been honest w/ Roy about rentals.
|
|
|
Post by Tizu on Nov 13, 2013 7:13:07 GMT -5
Wow...
|
|
|
Post by Ken D on Nov 13, 2013 10:33:45 GMT -5
Re the APR issue: As near as I can tell, graduation rates are entirely separate from Academic Progress Rates (APR). There are only two elements to the formula. Did the player stay in school, and was he academically eligible while he was there. That is calculated on a semester by semester basis. The rate used to determine whether a team will be sanctioned is a four year rolling average (presumably covering 8 semesters).
A school gets one point for each scholarship athlete who remains enrolled in the school. They also get a point for each scholarship athlete who remains academically eligible for the semester. The total points earned is then divided by the total possible points that could have been earned, and multiplied by 1,000.
If a student transfers while in good academic standing, there is no penalty to the losing team (unless he leaves mid-semester). There is also an exception for a player who leaves school early to pursue a pro career. But here is the catch. If a player who is going pro drops out before the end of the semester in order to try out/work out for pro scouts, he earns 0 points for the school, but adds 2 points to their "possible" total.
So, let's say a basketball team has 12 scholarship players. That gives them 24 possible points for each semester. If three players drop out of school in April to prepare for the NBA draft, the school only gets 18 points, for an APR of 750. If they have an average APR of 950 for the other 7 semesters in the four year rolling average, the school will still fall below the target (I think it's 930) and they will be subject to sanctions. Notably, Syracuse was penalized two scholarships for this very reason.
UConn was banned from postseason play for a different reason. They had players who neither transferred or went pro, but were academically ineligible. It's still not clear to me how Will Graves fits into the picture for UNC. Even if he comes back and earns a degree, that helps the schools GSR (graduation success rate) but it doesn't seem to help their APR (since he's no longer a scholarship athlete).
Hairston's case could be tricky as well. If he is declared ineligible now, and finishes what little is left of the fall semester in good academic standing, there would seem to be no hit to UNC's APR. But if the NCAA waits until after he enrolls for the spring semester to rule him ineligible, and he drops out of school as a result, UNC's APR could be penalized unless his scholarship had already been revoked.
Since the Wear twins left between semesters and transferred to UCLA, I don't see how they could hurt UNC. But I believe Drew left the school in mid-semester, so he probably counts against them. I have no idea what the academic status was of any UNC players who entered the draft early. I'm guessing every NCAA school has some math whiz who keeps up with this stuff. Most coaches probably couldn't figure it out on their own.
That's all I got.
|
|
|
Post by Tizu on Nov 14, 2013 7:31:29 GMT -5
Awesome explanation, Ken. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by cvholt87 on Dec 21, 2013 13:32:52 GMT -5
For those who didn't know, PJ Hairston was declared ineligible yesterday - drawing his career at UNC to a controversial end. There was a ton of optimism after the news broke regarding LMac's return but as I mentioned over a month ago, PJ's fate had long been sealed. You have to credit UNC for putting up a valiant effort though, they utilized every resource possible. The way Bubba handled this mess was a night and day difference from the football side of scandal.
|
|