ECU @ UNC

[Tizu]

What in the world happened there!? I figured it'd be a tough game, but I also figured UNC would come away with a win...boy was I wrong! Holy cow, what happened!? I've heard that UNC's defense played right into what ECU wanted to do offensively and they just literally ran all over them. I'm going to have to go back and watch this game.

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Shocking as it may seem, I'm nobody's UNC fan. That being said, I hated to read A.J. Blue's quote in the paper yesterday from after the game, that he saw complacency and dismissal of ECU in his teammates' eyes on the bus ride to the stadium. I've heard and read crap like that from State players before (football and basketball) and I gotta tell ya, while I do maintain they are just kids playing a game, if you want my money, my time, and my support then dammit, do your part. Play hard. Give a damn. Act like you care.

I can take State losing (done it more times than I care to count) but, dammit, don't roll over or not fight or play half-assed.

My sincere congratulations to anyone and everyone connected with ECU and their football program on a job well done and a game well played.

[Tizu]

Agreed, if you're not going to have that killer instinct for every game, don't bother going. Seriously, it's a disgrace. When are these guys going to learn you cannot sleep on ANY team. Every team is beatable. All of them.

[Ken D]

Frankly, I consider Blue's remarks to be insulting and condescending. While appearing to criticize his own team, he is indirectly dismissing ECU as a team they would have beaten if they just tried. Just accept that you got outplayed, and don't fall back on the excuse that "this game meant more to them than it did to us".

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Sept 30, 2013 14:22:20 GMT -5 Ken D said:

Frankly, I consider Blue's remarks to be insulting and condescending. While appearing to criticize his own team, he is indirectly dismissing ECU as a team they would have beaten if they just tried. Just accept that you got outplayed, and don't fall back on the excuse that "this game meant more to them than it did to us".

Actually Ken, in fairness to Mr. Blue, I took that to mean that he was saying pretty much what you were saying; i.e., he was feeling like some of his teammates weren't taking ECU seriously enough or that they were dismissing ECU. I didn't get the impression that he felt that way himself, but it's only one kid's view too.

[cvholt87]

With CMU coming to Raleigh, I figured a curb stomping was imminent and decided to take my talents to Chapel Hill and watch the Tar Heels take on the Pirates. Man did that turn out to be a great decision. From the opening drive until I left in the 4th quarter, it was all Pirates. I don't know if I've ever seen a defense look THAT bad. ECU was scoring at will and breaking tackles like they were playing a high school team. I bet I witnessed somewhere in the range of 50-75 missed tackles by UNC's defense. It was just simply unreal. Not only that, but UNC's defensive philosophy was somewhat of a mystery to me. I remember watching a 3rd and short play and the UNC corners were 8 yards off the LOS. EIGHT YARDS. Even if UNC would've figured out how to stop the run, ECU would have thrown it all over them.

Offensively, UNC has regressed a whole lot more than I thought. Renner's passes were flat out UGLY. Heck, the only TD they had in the first half came on a trick play that was thrown by the WR (double reverse pass). And even on that drive, the only reason they made it to the red zone is because Renner launched a duck that his receiver bailed him out on (he under threw it by 10 yards but the ECU corner had his back to him). The biggest surprise, however, was watching the UNC OL get DOMINATED. I don't mean a guy slips through every now and again, I'm talking about the ECU DL spent almost as much time in the backfield as Renner did.

Couple of side notes - It was rather amusing to hear UNC fans try and start a "fire Fedora" chant in the 3rd quarter (right next to the players families, no less). I realize losing to ECU in that fashion was demoralizing, but that was a bit ridiculous. Even still, after all the talk I've heard about Fedora over the offseason, I'd be lying if I said I didn't take a minute to sit back and have a good laugh at that.

[Tizu]

Thanks for the info cv! You are right, I went back and watched the game...and there were a ton of missed tackles. Being 8 yards off the LOS on a 3rd and short is just silly...I don't think Fedora is the one who needs to be fired...his Defensive Coordinator obviously needs help, though. I think in time, Fedora's system will work, but they HAVE to play defense. They cannot expect to try and out-gun everyone...it looked "Duke-esque". Lots of offense, no defense.

[Ken D]

CV, you are right about the regression of UNC's offense. They lost a lot of weapons from last year, and from what I can see they haven't really replaced any of them effectively. Obviously, Bernard was one of a kind. But I think both Morris and Blue were more effective runners last year than they are this year, probably because they are now running behind an OL that is just a shadow of last year's group. To boot, Morris was injured and unavailable against ECU.

At WR, who has stepped up to replace Boyd and Highsmith? They were speedy, and just as important, big targets. Without them, defenses can gang up on Ebron and Davis. I don't think pundits were taking into account how hard it would be to replace three NFL players on the OL, and that is where every offense starts. The way things look today, the Heels are going to struggle to get to a bowl.

[cvholt87]

Oh there's absolutely no doubt that UNC lost some important weapons and I think they're beginning to gain a better understanding of just how important those pieces were. Gio simply cannot be replaced, but I really thought the OL would've been in much better shape than they are. However, I feel that it's on the OC to figure out his strengths/weaknesses and play to those strengths/hide the weaknesses as much as he can. For example, look what Matt Canada has done with State's offense this year. He had to replace four starters on the line, a QB, his top TE, and his top WR. His solution? Use A TON of misdirection. He knows his OL is horrid and makes up for that by making the defense think. The more the defense thinks, the slower they are in getting to their assignments.

Fedora, on the other hand, has stated that his system "is proven, sound and won't change. It's a matter the players playing with more energy and the coaches doing a better job getting the players to understand their roles." While I respect that to a degree, in years where you clearly don't have the players to execute that system on a high level (like this year) I think you need to throw in some different packages or switch up the play calling to a degree. UNC had ZERO success on the ground in the first half, yet they kept trying to establish the run and the score reflected it. When UNC finally started throwing the ball in the 3rd quarter they started putting up some points.

At least that's my theory, anyway.

ETA - They'll definitely have trouble making a bowl if they continue playing like they did on Saturday and they know it (it was the first thing some of the players brought up at dinner after the game). Just listening to them talk, I think they bought into their own hype a little too much. They figured once they got past USC and GT it would be smooth sailing. We'll see if Fedora can turn it around.

[cvholt87]

Oct 1, 2013 6:14:33 GMT -5 Tizu said:

Thanks for the info cv! You are right, I went back and watched the game...and there were a ton of missed tackles. Being 8 yards off the LOS on a 3rd and short is just silly...I don't think Fedora is the one who needs to be fired...his Defensive Coordinator obviously needs help, though. I think in time, Fedora's system will work, but they HAVE to play defense. They cannot expect to try and out-gun everyone...it looked "Duke-esque". Lots of offense, no defense.

Agreed on the defensive coordinator front, something isn't right. I'm not sure if you've followed whats been going on between Koenning and his players but there's clearly a disconnect. Here are a few outtakes from his interview yesterday...

@jendanielsabc11: Vic Koenning speaking earlier today: “every play in prax I’m fighting someone to go to the ball harder or to focus more..1/2

@jendanielsabc11: 2/2:“it’s like I’m in a fistfight w/ whoever the heavy weight champ of the world is everyday just trying to get guys to do the right things”

@lebrownlow: Koenning said w/o Sly Williams/Kevin Reddick, it’s like he’s trying to move a couch by himself without anyone to help on the other side.


Also, here's a screenshot of what I was referring to in regards to UNC's soft zone play. Once you get past the fact that there are only 9 players on the field, focus on how far back the secondary is off the LOS. They only have one corner who is within 10 yards of the LOS and that's because he already recognized a run.

Defensive Screenshot

And if anything I'd say ECU's weakness was their passes of 20 yards or more. Simply no need to give that big of a cushion.

[Ken D]

"Also, here's a screenshot of what I was referring to in regards to UNC's soft zone play. Once you get past the fact that there are only 9 players on the field, focus on how far back the secondary is off the LOS. They only have one corner who is within 10 yards of the LOS and that's because he already recognized a run."


Linebackers? We don't need no stinkin' linebackers!

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Not a UNC fan, so they're not my problem, but I'm wondering ..... is UNC's 'base' defense a 4-2-5? Don't know that I've ever heard of another team using that as a base. I remember for years Maryland ran what I heard called a 'Wide Tackle 6', but I never figured out what the heck that was.

[cvholt87]

Yea, UNC runs a base 4-2-5 which is essentially a nickel defense that features a hybrid safety-linebacker as the 5th DB. Virginia Tech, TCU, and Auburn are some other teams that run it but I believe Gary Patterson is most famous for it. Ellis Johnson (Auburn DC) had great success with it at South Carolina, fielding three top 15 defenses in four seasons before he left for Southern Miss.

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

Obviously, I need to spend more time watching football.