Big East done?

[Tizu]

Is this the end of the Big East? All 7 catholic schools who are basketball members only announced they want out of the league. Although there are several more schools looking to join, will they change their tune or will the Big East be a football only conference?

Sound off.

[Marty Da Hungry Wolf]

I think most every conference, "as we knew them", is dead.

The ACC is now going to be down 2 of the original 8; "stronger", perhaps, thru expansion but that gain in strength is definitely tempered on the football side because FSU, UM, and VT ain't what they used to be. Basketball has been in flux (I still blame the one-and-done B.S.), but I think it looks much stronger this year and in the near future than in years recently past.

At this point though, to answer your original question, I do think the "Big East" is stick-a-fork-in-em done. The sole reason it was formed to begin with was to align the major northeastern basketball schools in the first place. I realize BC has had a football program for quite a while, but who else of the original Big East schools has ever historically had football to speak of? Syracuse, Pitt (original?), and ..... who else?

They did it to themselves chasing BCS football status; the Big East you see today looks nothing like the Big East of the early ESPN era. Nothing.

[Ken D]

I think the Big East name will survive, for purely financial reasons. But it will not resemble the Big East any of us knew. It will be like the axe we've had in the tool shed for many years - the one with 2 new heads and 8 new handles. Is it still the same axe?

The reason the name will survive is that schools who play in the NCAA tournament accumulate "units" based on how many rounds they play. Exit in the first round, you get one unit. Make it to the Final Four and you earn five units. The annual payout to each conference is based on the number of units their schools have earned in the current year plus what they earned in the preceding five years as a percentage of the total units earned by all D-I schools.

If a school leaves one conference for another, the units they had earned stay with their former conference. The estimated value of the units the Big East has from the schools that have left or are planning to leave is about $12 million. If the league disbands, the member schools leave that money on the table. I don't expect that to happen.

If the 7 Catholic schools were to leave tomorrow, the Big East will be deemed to have disbanded, because they will have fewer than six schools remaining. If they wait until the new members come on board after July 1 there will be enough schools in the Big East to be considered the same conference that existed before that date, even though nearly all of them will be new.

Somehow, I expect they will find a way to use those earned tourney units to negotiate how and when the Catholic schools will part ways with the others.

Edit: Louisville and Rutgers are expected to play football in the BE next season. If they are also committed to stay for basketball as well, the BE would meet the threshold of six remaining schools, and the league would not be considered disbanded, and they would retain the units for all departing schools (that would total 90, including those from West Virginia). That would be worth about $22 million. I don't expect the 7 Catholic schools to walk away from their share of that (but maybe they don't have good accountants advising them).

Second edit: While Temple is playing football in the BE this year, and is committed for all sports next year, they are not playing basketball in the BE this year. The NCAA may have to make a ruling as to whether they can be counted as a continuing member or not. There are 15 BE teams for basketball this season, ten of which have announced they are leaving. This could be dicey, and wind up in the courts if the NCAA rules them disbanded.

[Ken D]

At the end of the day, the schools that play football will still be playing it, under some name. But I doubt that either Boise State or San Diego State will ever play in the Big East or whatever name it goes by next year. Without those two, they will have 10 schools committed to play next season.

But you can bet the ranch that either UConn or Cincinnati would bail out if the ACC or Big XII would take them in. I don't think the ACC would take both these schools for reasons I've stated on other threads. But they might take UConn, and add Navy for football only giving them 16 schools for all sports. That would leave the BE with 9, which gives a balanced, four home - four away schedule, and a presence in 9 distinct major TV markets. So they might decide that's as good as they're going to get and stay right there. That might be enough to get a TV contract worth $3-4 million per school, which is better than any of them (except Cincy) have enjoyed in the past.

That makes Cincy the biggest loser here. They may be the best football program in the bunch, but they apparently aren't very appealing to any of the five power conferences.

[Ken D]

ESPN just answered one question. According to them (can't vouch for accuracy) the 7 schools will play the 2013-14 season in the Big East before departing. I suspect there may already have been some negotiation with the remaining schools re things like exit fees and residual tournament units.

One thing I also suspect is that these schools are going to find that their success had a lot to do with being in the Big East. I don't think they'll do as well in another conference. Now in both sports the Big East will be considered only a mid-major.

[Ken D]

Dec 14, 2012 23:15:17 GMT -5 Marty Da Hungry Wolf said:

I think most every conference, "as we knew them", is dead.

The ACC is now going to be down 2 of the original 8; "stronger", perhaps, thru expansion but that gain in strength is definitely tempered on the football side because FSU, UM, and VT ain't what they used to be. Basketball has been in flux (I still blame the one-and-done B.S.), but I think it looks much stronger this year and in the near future than in years recently past.

At this point though, to answer your original question, I do think the "Big East" is stick-a-fork-in-em done. The sole reason it was formed to begin with was to align the major northeastern basketball schools in the first place. I realize BC has had a football program for quite a while, but who else of the original Big East schools has ever historically had football to speak of? Syracuse, Pitt (original?), and ..... who else?

They did it to themselves chasing BCS football status; the Big East you see today looks nothing like the Big East of the early ESPN era. Nothing.

This post brings up some points worth discussing. I wish we had a larger group to do it in. But if you raise some of these questions on WRAL it will almost immediately deteriorate into partisan jibber jabber, most of it centered around John Swofford.

You are right about the origins of the league. The 9 early members of the league (7 founders plus 'Nova and Pitt) were in it for the basketball. And the league they formed was a nice league - good, but not the juggernaut it would eventually become. My question is were the seeds of the BE's downfall sown because they were chasing BCS status, or for the very decision to add football in the first place (that predated the BCS)?

In 1991 the league added 5 new members, all of them for football. Miami was admitted for all sports, but football was clearly the motive. Before that, the league had nine members, only 3 of which played football. Now they had 14, and 8 played football. The basketball only schools had become the minority voice.

Many will point to the ACC's "raid" in 2004-5 as the genesis of the league's destruction, but the BE stayed nearly as strong in football, and improved enormously in basketball after that. But despite the fact that BC was the only early member to defect, the charter members were now outnumbered. (Note: ACC original members are now outnumbered as well - six out of fourteen.)

Was Swofford a villain who preyed on a defenseless league? I don't give him that much credit. I think the BE's own commissioner delivered the fatal blow by recommending that the league turn down a $150 million TV deal, believing they could do even better by opening it up to more bidders. Since that decision, 11 more members have decided to follow West Virginia out the door.

I don't think the Big East was murdered. I think they committed suicide. Inadvertently, but suicide nonetheless.

[mattncsu02]

I just hope the ACC learns from the Big East's mistakes and doesn't go the same route a few years down the road.