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Post by Tizu on Sept 10, 2013 6:26:40 GMT -5
DetailsAnd here I thought the Hendrick teams were the only cheaters!
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Post by Ken D on Sept 10, 2013 10:23:56 GMT -5
DetailsAnd here I thought the Hendrick teams were the only cheaters! Seems to me that when you have a sport that was essentially created to celebrate cheating by moonshiners, you have to expect that this sort of thing will go on. Cheating has always been an integral part of NASCAR. I can't see the point of watching a bunch of cars drive in circles for hours, just so they can be artificially bunched together at the end in a sprint to see which team NASCAR wants to win this week. This is only one small step above WWE. |
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 10, 2013 12:20:32 GMT -5
I almost would've said this is one more reason I'm getting further and further from being a NASCAR fan, but then NASCAR nuked Waltrip Racing so I think the right call was made.
Ken apparently knows I'm no fan of Jeff Gordon in particular or Hendrick Motorsports in general, but I don't want them CHEATED out of anything. If this ruling had meant Gordon got in the 'Chase', then so be it.
I wish like hell Fox would ditch both Waltrips, they make watching the first half season's races interminable, and this is the second time MWR has gotten busted huge for flagrant cheating. Disappointed as hell in both Clint Bowyer and Ty Norris, both have lineages with Childress, but that whole thing was bush league BS of the highest order.
MWR and everybody connected to it ought to be suspended en masse for the rest of this season, at all levels of NASCAR competition. Sometimes killing the fly with the bazooka is the only way to get the fly's attention. Shame on the lot of 'em.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 10, 2013 20:25:43 GMT -5
Oh, and by the way Ken - Hendrick teams aren't the only cheaters, just the most prolific.  |
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Post by Tizu on Sept 11, 2013 6:07:22 GMT -5
Indeed, Marty. I think MWR should be done for the rest of the year and the first half of next year, too. Just to really stick it to them. NASCAR made a statement with what they did, but I don't feel they went far enough. Actually, they probably should ban MWR from racing indefinitely to really send a message. Now, I don't necessarily put this on the drivers...because it sounds like they weren't really aware of what was going on...other than maybe Bowyer, but the crew chiefs and owner should be finished for good.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 11, 2013 7:32:52 GMT -5
Here's the thing to me, and I get that some people compare NASCAR to Pro Wrestling re: rules, perceived "set-ups", etc.
I know racing has always been about trying get away with as much as you could, if you broke the rules oh well, if you got caught oh hell. Been around long enough to know that. The problem is that it was a BLATANT and PUBLIC disregard of not only the rules, but of what I've always thought of as the proverbial unspoken or gentlemen's agreement. True, a driver can also intentionally manipulate the outcome of a race if he "takes out" another driver, but at least (hopefully) that only affects the two drivers involved.
This was blatantly and intentionally done in order to SCREW another driver(s) out of a position in what passes for the playoffs, literally screwing him/them out of any chance for a championship. Like I said, bush league. That type of crap is what I'd expect at Wake County Speedway, not Richmond International Raceway. Bad enough that the driver (Bowyer) would do something (yeah, yeah, I know, he denied doing it intentionally - feathers, bill, web feet, you're a duck, Clint) intentionally. When you have the crew chiefs and the General Manager of MWR (or what ever Ty Norris' position is) calling on the radios and orchestrating this BS, it's time for the whole bunch of them to be gone - maybe for good. Let them try working for a living and see how they like that. They took not just the sport and the racing business in general for granted, but the fans as well. Once again, I applaud NASCAR for the decision they made, both it's swiftness and effectiveness. I do feel, however, that the suspensions should be more far-reaching and for longer periods of time as I posted earlier. Michael Waltrip and Ty Norris should be gone, maybe permanently. The crew chiefs, pawns in this game and acting at the behest of at LEAST the General Manager (since "Mikey" has denied any involvement or prior knowledge of this, ahem, unplanned event), should be suspended from all NASCAR activity through at least the end of next season. Bowyer should be suspended through the end of next season, and the 15 not allowed to run through the end of next season (what would the sponsor have to say about that?). I agree with the points penalties to Truex and Vickers, but they just did what they were told to do, and Truex getting barred from the playoff Chase seems sufficient in light of his actually not really doing anything wrong at all, other than being a driver for this gaggle of goons.
I understand the incentive to get into the racing playoffs, or to take PED's to hit a baseball a quarter-mile or be able to bench-press a Toyota, but if you cheat did you really do anything? I'm not naive, but before Saturday night's race it would've been pretty hard for me to believe they thought they could get away with it, then that they'd be satisfied that they cheated to get something - guess I was wrong, huh?
Don't know if it's Fox Sports or NASCAR that has made the Waltrips get the apparent notion that they're irreplaceable, but they both should be shown the door (in my opinion). Mikey has quickly gone downhill in my eyes, he shouldn't be allowed to drive, broadcast, or own a team, and a lot of people I've talked to are beyond being tired of Darrell on the broadcasts. NASCAR has broken their ass to cut ties with their roots, here's two more pieces of dead wood.
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Post by Tizu on Sept 11, 2013 12:22:14 GMT -5
Marty, Dead on. DW's "boogity boogity boogity" BS is way overdone, not to mention childish. He was a decent driver back in his day, but it's time to hang up the mic as well.
All of those involved in this should be banned for life, not be able to go to the races, etc...though I'm not sure how enforceable that really is.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 11, 2013 20:54:53 GMT -5
Treat 'em just like they were me in any one of a half-dozen bars in Myrtle Beach about 20 years ago; put their picture by the door with instructions to shoot on sight.  |
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 11, 2013 21:40:21 GMT -5
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Post by Tizu on Sept 12, 2013 6:43:57 GMT -5
Good. MWR deserves to lose all sponsorship's and as stated earlier banned from any NASCAR event, period.
I've never been a fan of Michael Waltrip, though the "NAPA Know How" commercials were pretty funny. I'm really disappointed in Clint Bowyer...I actually liked him. He know he spun on purpose...be a man and own up to it already!
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Post by Ken D on Sept 12, 2013 9:59:25 GMT -5
There is a simple answer to all this. The problem is allowing the use of teams in what is essentially an individual sport. As long as you have drivers who are teammates (and answerable to a common, powerful owner) you will have this kind of cheating. So prohibit teams. And then, when drivers collaborate to essentially "fix" the outcome of races, ban them permanently just like ballplayers who fix games.
Can you imagine a scenario where an owner would be allowed to own three NBA franchises? Of course everybody would assume they were cheating when they play each other. It's no different in racing. If you are going to allow teams, you are condoning the inevitable cheating that follows from it.
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Post by Ken D on Sept 12, 2013 9:59:45 GMT -5
There is a simple answer to all this. The problem is allowing the use of teams in what is essentially an individual sport. As long as you have drivers who are teammates (and answerable to a common, powerful owner) you will have this kind of cheating. So prohibit teams. And then, when drivers collaborate to essentially "fix" the outcome of races, ban them permanently just like ballplayers who fix games.
Can you imagine a scenario where an owner would be allowed to own three NBA franchises? Of course everybody would assume they were cheating when they play each other. It's no different in racing. If you are going to allow teams, you are condoning the inevitable cheating that follows from it.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 12, 2013 11:44:27 GMT -5
Excellent point, as usual Ken. However, "team limits" have been circumvented before (I'll leave it to you to figure out by whom).
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Post by Ken D on Sept 12, 2013 14:34:12 GMT -5
If you want to make NASCAR a team sport, like Roller Derby, then establish uniform rules for how many drivers per team and legalize any action a driver may take to help a teammate.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 12, 2013 19:16:19 GMT -5
I'm telling you Ken, it's been done. The "rules" were circumvented. NASCAR still also retains the power to hand down decisions as they see fit for actions deemed "detrimental to the sport".
The only way to deal with stuff like this is to kill the fly with the bazooka. Leave no doubt that BS like this will not be tolerated. Not no way, not no how.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 13, 2013 19:10:00 GMT -5
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Post by Tizu on Sept 17, 2013 6:30:05 GMT -5
He did get screwed. He would have been in over Truex had MWR not pulled their bullshit. I'm not a fan of his either but at least he is in now as he should have been.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 17, 2013 11:42:37 GMT -5
Agreed - still won't make me pull for him but if the guy deserves the Chase spot then he deserves it.
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Post by Tizu on Sept 19, 2013 11:26:08 GMT -5
Welp, NAPA dropped Waltrip due to the Richmond scandal / cheating.
Good.
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Post by Marty Da Hungry Wolf on Sept 21, 2013 8:24:44 GMT -5
Sucks for Truex, but maybe he can land on his feet. Methinks we've not seen the last domino fall. Wonder what Dale woulda thought about all this - wait, scratch that. Pretty damn sure I know exactly how he'd have felt about such BS.
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